Germany, please look into the death of Sammy Baker

Hello Germans of Lichess. After years of legal chicanery that's going nowhere, I want to point your attention to this case:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sammy_Baker

Samuel Seewald (aka Sammy Baker) was confused and in severe distress when the Dutch police killed him in 2020. His death was in my view preventable and this sad and violent outcome was the result of misguided lethal violence by the police. Even the attack dog they released on him was confused by the kill order, because the well-trained animal saw no threat.

It seems that a "blue wall of silence" has been engaged to protect those responsible from having to admit mistakes. He was a German citizen, and maybe not your best or brightest, but he deserved better than this outcome. This case has been shut down so it probably needs political pressure from Germany, considering he was a German citizen, he was killed without a good reason and the Dutch legal system is failing to properly represent him.

To anyone else with psychological issues, this is a deeply terrifying case. It shows people who need psychological assistance are unsafe from police ineptitude. But even worse, the deception following it, in which details about his psychology were used to "rationalize" his killing, undermines the much needed trust in mental healthcare. People do not need psychologists to provide a list of reasons to be killed with impunity.

Please support his parents in their prolonged and frustrating legal fight towards restoring his honor.

Dutch article about the latest developments:
nos.nl/artikel/2505627-ouders-in-amsterdam-doodgeschoten-influencer-doen-aangifte-tegen-agenten

@s2numbuq35i said in #1:

> To anyone else with psychological issues, this is a deeply terrifying case. It shows people who need psychological assistance are unsafe from police ineptitude. But even worse, the deception following it,...

Look, I live with clinical depression and I'm all for it when people want to spread mental health awareness, but you're not helping if you conveniently omit the fact that he was on "recreational" drugs running around with a knife.

@GordonBradypus said in #2:
> Look, I live with clinical depression and I'm all for it when people want to spread mental health awareness, but you're not helping if you conveniently omit the fact that he was on "recreational" drugs running around with a knife.

Thanks for weighing in. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I wanted to "conveniently" make it look like something it wasn't by omitting facts. It was not my intention to mislead people. I thought to include the link so people can read the facts if they wish, not my intention to distort them.

He indeed had a small kitchen knife, but he held it against his own throat (which is probably why the dog didn't see him as a threat), possibly trying to commit suicide, or even suicide-by-cop. Also he wasn't moving, because he was surrounded and cornered. I think in this situation the police was outnumbering him twelve guns to one potato knife. As a result I am convinced there was no need to shoot him.

So yes, it was a complicated situation due to his mental state, but in my view this outcome was still not necessary and the result of a chain of mistakes, obviously including his own.

@s2numbuq35i said in #1:
> Please support his parents in their prolonged and frustrating legal fight towards restoring his honor.

I certainly won't. Seewald was a german citizen but neither do I know what exactly happened nor am I going to speculate in one direction or another who was at fault. If there is an issue with the dutch police and their reactions to someone who walks toward them with a knife and tries to stab them it is solely a matter for the dutch people. Germans don't have any business in this.

"Restore his honor" - yeah, right. A lot of idiocies have been committed in the name of "restoring honor" and I'm not engaging in another one.

This is the external analysis that is mentioned in the article:
forensic-architecture.org/investigation/the-killing-of-sammy-baker

To me a couple of facts jump out. One is that the police seem to be the ones who distorted the facts about the threat he posed to them.

Another which really moved me is that he asked for a doctor, and that doctors fully trained to handle this very type of situation were present and waiting, but denied access.

@Katzenschinken said in #4:
> I certainly won't. Seewald was a german citizen but neither do I know what exactly happened nor am I going to speculate in one direction or another who was at fault. If there is an issue with the dutch police and their reactions to someone who walks toward them with a knife and tries to stab them it is solely a matter for the dutch people. Germans don't have any business in this.
> Restore his honor" - yeah, right. A lot of idiocies have been committed in the name of "restoring honor" and I'm not engaging in another one.

There is no evidence he tried to stab them.

From the analysis:
> – The officers’ conduct in the minutes before Sammy’s death exacerbated the situation, rather than de-escalating it.
> – Officers’ testimony about key parts of the story, including what kind of danger Sammy could have posed, were not consistent with the video evidence. The dog handler did not fall to the ground with Sammy. He did not wave his knife toward officers as he was walking towards them.
> – If the officers had taken a step backwards at any time while Sammy was on the ground, they could have removed themselves from any potential danger.

Note:
I have shared more details as I was accused of "conveniently omitting" them. Doing so, I also wish to add a content/trigger warning, because reading the case, and especially watching the video evidence can evoke heavy responses.

@s2numbuq35i said in #6:
> There is no evidence he tried to stab them.

And even if he didn't - which we still don't know - he walked towards them with a knife. Which was fucking stupid.

But I'll repeat myself: This is a legal matter for his parents and the dutch public. Not for us other Germans.

@Katzenschinken said in #8:
> And even if he didn't - which we still don't know - he walked towards them with a knife. Which was fucking stupid.
>
> But I'll repeat myself: This is a legal matter for his parents and the dutch public. Not for us other Germans.

Well not properly trained police men and women will bring a fucking stupid result like that.

Obviously looks you did not read Wikipedia page before writing this:

> If there is an issue with the dutch police and their reactions to someone who walks toward them with a knife and tries to stab them it is solely a matter for the dutch people. Germans don't have any business in this.

Because in the Wikipedia page link we can read this:

>As his mother stood nearby, an ambulance with mental health workers arrived but they stayed behind the police who had their guns drawn. Seewald allegedly ***held a knife to his throat and when a police officer approached from behind him with a police dog*** , he turned round and there was a struggle. Seewald was then shot three times and taken to hospital where he died of his injuries. The Dutch media reported the ***claims of*** the Amsterdam ***police chief*** , Frank Paauw, that Seewald had attacked a police officer with the knife. ***Witnesses to the killing were not interviewed** and the police ***bodycam footage was found to be defective*** .

Defective body cam + poorly trained polices == license to kill

Maybe you should do some readings rather than display your ignorance on the subject?

Maybe reading this would help you? This was published in 2018 and

>[...]People living with mental illnesses are 16 times more likely to die as a result of a police encounter compared to the general public. In 2017, one in four killed by police were living with a mental illness.
>
>To address these tragic statistics, we need to supply adequate tools that police can use when they respond to mental health emergencies, so they can do so in a safe, effective and caring manner that de-escalate tense situations. Additionally, we need to provide the appropriate skills for police to care for themselves.
>
>It is critical that police receive specialized mental health training — and Massachusetts is leading the way.
>[...]
>Let’s stop responding to those living with mental illnesses as offenders and start meeting their needs as patients. Let’s protect our officers and our communities at large. Let’s make sure every officer in America is trained in Mental Health First Aid for Public Safety.

www.mentalhealthfirstaid.org/2018/02/police-need-mental-health-training/

And from Netherlands this:

>Mental health-related incidents on the rise
>
>A nation-wide review by the Dutch police shows that the number of officer-reported incidents involving "confused" suspects increased by almost 50 per cent between 2011 and 2014.
>
>Though the reason for the increase is unknown, many of those who advocate a greater focus on mental illness see these numbers as underscoring the need for more initiatives.

www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/dutch-police-gain-tools-help-mentally-ill

Maybe the dog was better trained than the police at the other end of the leash?

Sadly, in too many countries way too many polices are not properly trained to deal with this.

@bfchessguy said in #9:
> Maybe you should do some readings rather than display your ignorance on the subject?

Are you from Germany? Then let me ask you why you feel the need to engage in this matter.
1) Is it because Seewald was a fellow German?
2) Is it because he was an influencer that you followed?
3) Is it because you think the dutch police's guidelines for handling these kind of situations are not appropriate?
4) Is it for general reasons of injustice?

If 1): This is just a BS argument. Defending the honor of another German in the Netherlands? Really? Haven't we Germans messed around there enough?
If 2): This is even less of an argument and more BS.
If 3): This is a matter for the dutch public, not for Germans. How often do I have to repeat this?
If 4): There are a lot more blatant examples of injustice in this world than someone walking towards law enforcement officers with a knife and getting killed. Why exactly did you choose particularly this one to engage in?